本期直播邀请元宇宙产业委联席秘书长、高效能服务器和存储技术国家重点实验室首席研究员叶毓睿，与科技云报道执行主编张颖开展对话。
The live broadcast invited the Co-Secretary-General of MEAC, Chief Researcher Ye Xiaoyin of the National Focus Laboratory for Efficient Energy Servers and Storage Technologies, to engage in a dialogue with the Executive Editor of the Science and Technology Clouds Report.
以下是访谈精编摘录：
The following is an excerpt from the interview:
1. 一句话介绍“什么是元宇宙”？
& nbsp; 1. Introduction to & ldquao; what is the metacosystem & rdquao?? & nbsp;
元宇宙是以区块链为基础的，虚实融合的，由创作者驱动的共创、共治、共享的数字新世界。
The meta-cosmos is a new digital world based on a block chain that is artificially integrated, creatively driven by co-creation, co-management and sharing.
简称为七个字：多维、共创、互信网。
The acronym is seven words: multi-dimensional, co-founder, inter-trust network.
2. 元宇宙和Web3.0是什么关系？
& nbsp; 2. What's the relationship between the metacosystem and Web3.0?
元宇宙作为一个数字新世界，未来人们可以在里面工作、生活、旅游，是一个非常大的场景。
As a new digital world in which people can work, live, travel in the future, it is a very big scene.
在这个大场景中，Web3.0、区块链、VR/AR、5G/6G等等，都是构建元宇宙的基础性技术。其中，Web3.0可以看做是元宇宙的网络基础，DAO（去中心化自治组织）是元宇宙的社区基础，也是未来的治理方式。
In this big scene, Web3.0, block chains, VR/AR, 5G/6G, etc., are the basic technologies for building metacosystems. Among them, Web3.0 can be seen as the basis of the metacocosystem, with DAO (decentralized autonomous organization) being the basis of the metacocosystem’s community and the way of its future governance.
3. 您认为元宇宙是一个能够落地的概念吗？
& nbsp;3. Do you think the meta-cosmos is a concept that can land? & nbsp;
我认为元宇宙是能够落地的。
I think the meta-cosmos can land.
从更宏观的角度看，人类不断繁衍过程中，地球的可用资源逐渐捉襟见肘。在这个过程中其实有两条路径来寻求资源。
At a more macro level, the resources available to the planet are being stretched in the process of human reproduction. In this process, there are actually two paths to the search for resources.
一条路径是向外探索，比如去外太空开垦资源等。另一条路径是向内发展，对地球上的资源进行优化配置，这样才能在短时间内去承担人类活动需要消耗的资源。
One path is outward exploration, for example, the exploitation of resources in outer space. The other is inward development, optimizing the allocation of resources on Earth in order to absorb, within a short period of time, the resources that human activity needs to consume.
元宇宙的出现，就是一条向内发展的路径，可以帮助人类以更低成本、更便捷的方式去满足部分的精神需求，降低人类资源消耗。
The advent of the meta-cosmos is a path towards inward development that can help humanity to meet part of its spiritual needs in a cheaper and easier manner and reduce the consumption of human resources.
比如，山区的孩子想去亲身体验一下故宫，想去看看埃菲尔铁塔，但是现有条件很难达成。有了元宇宙之后，孩子们戴上VR头盔，就能亲临其境地体验这些名胜古迹。每个学校只需要采购一个多媒体教室，买几十个VR头显，就能实现不同班级在不同时间段去使用，用很低的成本、接近于真实体验的方式去体验地理、历史、自然、科技等课程。
For example, children in mountain areas want to experience the palace first-hand, see the Eiffel Tower, but the conditions are difficult to achieve. With the Yuan cosmos, children are able to experience these monuments by wearing VR helmets. Each school only needs to buy a multimedia classroom and dozens of VR head displays that will enable different classes to be used at different times, at very low cost and in close proximity to real experience, to experience geography, history, nature, technology, etc.
4. 作为一个数字新世界，元宇宙的建设需要用到哪些技术？
& nbsp; 4. What technologies are needed to build the meta-cosmos as a new digital world? & nbsp;
既然元宇宙是一个数字世界，它就不能凭空产生，而是需要物理世界的支撑，目前看元宇宙的建设需要十大技术包括：
Since the meta-cosmos is a digital world, it cannot be created in empty space, but it needs to be supported by the physical world, and the construction of the meta-cosmos currently requires ten major technologies, including:
五大地基性技术：AI技术、网络技术、计算技术、存储技术、安全技术
Five-land-based technologies: AI technology, network technology, computing technology, storage technology, security technology
元宇宙虚拟空间从“荒漠”开始，源于物理世界IT基础设施的各种算力源源不断的输入。这种广义的算力，包括计算、存储、网络、安全和AI的能力，相当于我们要建筑一个大楼，首先要打好地基。
The metaspace virtual space starts with & ldquo; desert & & rdquo; beginning with the constant input of all the computing power from the physical world's IT infrastructure. This broad computing, including computing, storage, network, security, and AI's capabilities, is the same as we want to build a building, starting with a foundation.
五大支柱性技术：交互与展示的技术、数字孪生与数字原生的技术、创建身份系统与经济系统的技术、内容创作的技术和治理技术。
Five pillars of technology: technologies for interaction and demonstration, technologies for digital twin and digital origin, technologies for creating identity and economic systems, technologies for content creation and governance.
元宇宙地基打造之后，接下来需要在此基础上构建各类应用、场景，打造丰富的内容，创造出令人激动的数字新世界，具体而言：
Following the construction of the foundations of the meta-cosmos, it will be necessary to build applications, scenes, create rich content and create an exciting digital new world, specifically:
-
物理世界的人通过交互和展示技术获知和管理数字人的生活、工作等；
People in the physical world are informed of and manage the lives, work, etc. of digital people through interactive and demonstration techniques;
-
数字孪生把物理世界中的物、场、事件映射到元宇宙里，这样能在早期较快地构建一个数字人熟悉的环境；数字原生可以发挥想象力，构建一个有别于物理世界的空间，例如远距瞬移，爆炸状的头发；
Digital twines map objects, fields, events in the physical world into the meta-cosm so that an environment familiar to the digital population can be constructed relatively quickly at an early stage; digital in origin can use imagination to construct a space that is different from the physical world, such as instantaneous distance, explosive hair;
-
数字人在数字世界游走、闯荡，需要“身份证”、“钱包”，也即需要提前创建身份系统和经济系统；
Digital people travel and run around the digital world and need & ldquao; ID & & rdquao; & & & rdquao; wallet & rdquao; i.e., identity and economic systems need to be created in advance;
-
人想要丰富的体验，数字人要有精彩纷呈的应用，需要内容创作，如3D影视、游戏、社交、艺术、文旅、教育、培训、科学探索等；
People want to have a rich experience, digital people need wonderful applications, and they need content creation, such as 3D videos, games, socialization, art, travel, education, training, scientific exploration, etc.;
-
随着数字人不断增多，从荒漠到村落、城堡、国家，甚至有了文明系统，其中不可或缺的就是共识、规则，甚至元宇宙里的法律，也即治理技术。
As the number of people grows, from deserts to villages, castles, nations and even civilized systems, consensus, rules and even the law in the meta-cosm, i.e., the technology of governance, are indispensable.
5. 五大地基性技术（算力、存储、网络、安全、AI），也是目前互联网（web2.0）的基础性技术，如果要进入元宇宙（web3.0），这些技术分别要达到什么样的水平？
5. Five-ground-based technologies (arithmetic, storage, network, security, AI) and the current basic technologies of the Internet (web 2.0) at what level would they reach if they were to enter the meta-cosm (web3.0)? & nbsp;
web 2.0和web 3.0的技术水平确实不同。
The technology levels of web 2.0 and web 3.0 are different.
以算力为例，英特尔高级副总裁Raja Koduri曾说过一句话，想要实现元宇宙，我们的计算效率需要从目前的先进水平提高1000倍，负载也需要达到可被数十亿人实时访问的水平。但以目前的技术水平，其实是还是比较难达到的。
In the case of arithmetic, Senior Vice-President Raja Koduri of Intel said that, to achieve the metacosystem, our computing efficiency would need to increase by 1,000 times from current advanced levels, and loads would need to reach levels that could be accessed by billions of people in real time. But at current technological levels, it would be difficult to achieve.
说到算力，大家第一直观想到的就是CPU芯片，芯片算力的提升和摩尔定律有关，一般18-24个月会有成倍的增长。但可惜的是，受限于CPU的集成密度、效率性能以及功耗、散热等技术制约，最近几年CPU算力的增长仅仅只有3%，这就意味着我们想要达到1000倍的算力，可能还要经过几十年。
When it comes to computing, the first thing you think about is the CPU chip, whose increase is related to Moore’s Law, which usually increases exponentially in 18-24 months. Unfortunately, the CPU’s capacity has grown by only 3% in recent years, subject to such technologies as integration density, efficiency performance, and power consumption, radiation, etc., as it is limited to CPUs, which means that we want to reach a 1,000-fold level of computing, which may take decades.
所以在元宇宙这样的大场景下，对于计算架构会产生一些新的挑战和变化。
So there are some new challenges and changes to the architecture of calculations in such a big scenario as the meta-cosmos.
谷歌在2009年曾提出了“数据中心即计算机”的概念，大体的意思是整个数据中心、数万台服务器都应该被当做一个大的计算机，来进行资源的调度和管理，这样在计算架构上就会出现相应的变化。
Google introduced in 2009 the concept of “ the data centre, a computer & & rdquo; in general terms, that the entire data centre, tens of thousands of servers, should be treated as a large computer for resource movement and management, which would result in a corresponding change in the computational structure.
在2014年，浪潮信息按照"服务器即计算机→机柜即计算机→数据中心即计算机" 的理念，先后推出了SmartRack、InCloud Rack等产品，通过模块化设计，集中供电、集中散热、集中管理，使得电源数量减少90%，风扇数量减少93% 。
In 2014, wave information was based on &quat; servers & rrr; cabinets & rrr; data centres & quot; and the idea that products such as SmartRack, InCloud Rack and others were introduced through modular design, which resulted in a 90 per cent reduction in the number of power sources and a 93 per cent reduction in the number of fans.
顺着这个思路，未来其实可以实现“一切皆计算机”。不论是一个杯子、一块手表、一个音箱，相信很多可穿戴设备都能成为一台计算机。
Along these lines, the future can actually achieve & & & & & & & & & & & & & & & ; whether it's a cup, a watch, a sound box, and believe that many of the wearing devices can become a computer.
比如Meta（Facebook）最近推出的一款触觉手套，就可以看做是一台计算机。它内置了很多传感器，根据手部动作施加一些力的感觉，戴上它在VR里就可以拥有触觉，两个人在虚拟空间可以握手、碰拳，甚至完成更精细的动作，与虚拟物体交互体验更真实。
For example, a touch glove recently introduced by Meta (Facebook) can be seen as a computer. It has a lot of sensors, a little bit of force from hand action, a touch in VR, two people in virtual space who can shake hands, touch fists, even do more fine moves, and interact with virtual objects more real.
随着元宇宙的场景越来越丰富，我相信会倒逼IT基础设施发生变化。
As the landscape of the Woncosmos grows richer, I'm sure it will push the IT infrastructure to change.
6.技术水平提升1000倍是一个非常宏大的愿景，如果想要进入元宇宙的初步形态，您预测需要多少年？
6. A 1,000-fold increase in technology is a very ambitious vision, and if you want to enter the initial shape of the meta-cosm, how many years do you predict? & nbsp;
我属中庸派，既不激进，也不悲观，我认为至少需要十年时间。
I am a mediocre, neither radical nor pessimistic, and I think it will take at least 10 years.
这中间还要有科技上的巨大突破，但科技的突破可遇不可求，往往还需要整个产业生态的配套和积累，15-20年都是有可能的。
There are also major breakthroughs in technology, but breakthroughs in science and technology are unattainable and often require the support and accumulation of the entire industry's ecology, which is possible for 15-20 years.
那么，这么长时间的孕育期，是不是我们就什么也不能做了呢？我的观点是不要对元宇宙的发展过于苛求。
So, is there nothing we can do during this long gestation period? My point is not to be too hard on the development of the meta-cosmos.
比如，现在Z世代就很喜欢玩可以自己设计的游戏，哪怕游戏画面本身是像素级的、粗糙的，也不影响他们投入其中。
For example, the Z generation now likes to play games that can be designed by itself, even if the video itself is pixel-grade, rough and does not affect their input.
之前美国有一个乐高积木风格的大型多人在线游戏创建平台Roblox，用户可以在上面设计自己的游戏、物品、外观和服饰，还可以玩其他开发者创建的各种游戏。2012年9月，15岁少年Sexton在Roblox上发布了Deadzone游戏，到2013年1月，已有超过500万次的游玩记录，并从中获益。
In September 2012, the 15-year-old Sexton released the Deadzone game on Roblox, and by January 2013 had more than 5 million entries and benefited from it.
这种游戏创作方式，其实已经具备了元宇宙共创共治共享的一些特征，可以算作是元宇宙应用的一个雏形。
This way of creating games, which already have some of the characteristics shared by the meta-cosmos, can be counted as a prototype of meta-cosm applications.
所以我觉得对元宇宙的态度要稍微宽松一些，允许大家去蹭热点。
So I think the attitude towards the meta-cosmos should be a little more relaxed and allow you to get hot.
7. 目前元宇宙有没有形成产业链？产业是怎样的构成？
& nbsp; 7. Has the metaspace formed an industrial chain? What is the composition of industry? & nbsp;
现阶段还谈不上产业链，大家都还在盲人摸象的阶段，可能只到达了元宇宙理想状态的1%-2%。
There is no industry chain at this stage, and everyone is still at the stage of the visualization of the blind, which may have reached only 1 to 2 per cent of the ideal state of the meta-cosmos.
但是我们可以从元宇宙构成的必要元素，去预测一些产业链的构成。
But we can predict the composition of some industrial chains from the necessary elements of the meta-cosm.
比如，前面提到的交互和展示技术，其实支撑的是出入元宇宙的界面，其中很重要的一个应用就是数字人。
For example, the interactive and display technology mentioned earlier supports the interface between the in and out of the meta-cosmos, one of the important applications of which is the digital person.
当人们进入到元宇宙的3D世界，一定会比在2D互联网中更加在意自己的形象，出于社交的需求会投入更多的时间和财力在数字人的形象装扮上。因此，围绕数字人，未来一定会产生出如火如荼的商业化场景。
When people enter the 3D world of the meta-cosmos, they must be more interested in their image than they are in the 2D Internet, and more time and financial resources will be devoted to the image of the digital person. So, around the digital person, the future will be full of commercialization.
8. 如果我们想尽早投身元宇宙，享受新时代的红利，您有什么建议？
What do you suggest if we want to join the universe as soon as possible and enjoy the dividends of the new era?
元宇宙是个很宏伟的概念，现在正在风口上，但是对于个体来说，我要泼一盆冷水，可以说大部分和我们都没太大关系。
The Yuan cosmos is an ambitious concept, and it's in the air right now, but for individuals, I'm gonna throw a cold pot of water, and it's probably not much to do with us.
但是作为个体用户，我们可以去做各种各样的尝试，找到一个兴趣点去切入、去体验。在这个过程中，有可能半年甚至2-3年才能逐渐发现自己能结合的点。
But as individual users, we can do all kinds of things, find a point of interest to cut in, and experience. In this process, it is likely that we can discover the points that we can combine over the next six months or even two to three years.
另外，大家可以留意一些新职业的出现，比如现在给数字人“造脸”的捏脸师，就是一门收入不错的新职业。未来元宇宙需要的每一项技术，以及所衍生出来的每一个产业对应的上下游，都会诞生很多新职业。
In addition, you can notice the emergence of new occupations, such as digital & ldquo; face-making & & rdquo; and face-cuffing is a new job with good pay. Every technology needed for the future meta-cosmos, and the corresponding up/downstreams of every industry that comes from it, will give rise to a lot of new jobs.
如果你一开始是以玩票性质接触了元宇宙，未来很可能这种兴趣就演变为某种新职业，我觉得在元宇宙里还是有无限可能的。
If you first touched the meta-cosmos by means of a vote, it is likely that this interest will evolve into a new profession in the future, and I think there is an infinite possibility in the meta-cosmos.
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