專訪：西柚，ChainCatcher
Visited: ChainCatcher, ChainCatcher
嘉賓：Fisher Yu，Babylon 聯創
Guest: Fisher Yu, Babylon
編輯：念青，ChainCatcher
Editor: ChainCatcher
比特幣突破7萬美元，市值接近1.5兆美元，超越了白銀，成為全球市值第八大資產。但由於比特幣不支援智能合約，上兆美元的比特幣資產只能沉睡在錢包或交易所中，僅作為價值儲存資產存在，無法發揮其流動價值。
Bitcoins have broken over $70,000, with a market value close to $1.5 trillion, surpassing silver and becoming the eighth largest global market asset. But, since bitcoins do not support smart contracts, dollarbits can only sleep in a wallet or exchange, but only as a value-saving asset that does not hold its current value.
不過，隨著Ordinals協議的發展和繁榮，比特幣生態也迎來了新生，圍繞比特幣構建的各種應用和協議層出不窮， Babylon協議就是其中的明星產品，它通過Staking的方式解鎖比特幣的流動性、提高持有者收益的同時，也透過提取、解耦比特幣的安全性共享給PoS網路及相關應用程式等。
However, with the development and prosperity of the Ordinals agreement, the Bitcoin ethos has emerged, and the various applications and protocols built around the Bitcoins have come to the fore, Babyllon is a star product of the agreement, which, in the same way as staking, unlocks the movement of the special currency, improves the income of its holders, shares security with PoS networks and applicatives.
從產品功能來講，Babylon是一個基於比特幣的中間件協議，由史丹佛教授David Tse（簡稱David）和Fisher Yu博士共同創建。它為比特幣引入了質押（Staking）功能，讓BTC持有者可以無需信任地將其資產質押到其他需要安全和信任的協議或服務中，從而獲得PoS質押收益和治理權，同時也將比特幣安全性傳遞到各類中介軟體、資料可用性層、側鏈等協定上，讓它們以更低的成本享受比特幣層級的安全性。
In terms of product functions, Babylon is an intermediate agreement based on the Bitcoins, co-founded by Professor Stanford David Tse (simple David) and Dr. Fisher Yu. It introduces a pledge (Staking) function for the Bitcoins, allowing BTC holders to place their assets without trust in other agreements or services that require security and trust, and to secure the proceeds and governance of the PoSs.
從業務範圍來看， Babylon涵蓋了兩個方面：一是BTC持有者可以質押BTC，為其他協議提供安全性和可信層；二是讓PoS鏈或其它比特幣生態系統中的新協議或應能利用BTC質押者作為驗證節點，提高安全性和效率。
From a business perspective, Babeylon has two dimensions: the BTC holder can pledge BTC to provide a safe and credible layer for other agreements; and the new agreements in the PoS chain or other bitcoin systems or should be used by BTC detainees as a test point to improve security and efficiency.
在工作機轉上，Babylon與以太坊的再質押協議EigenLayer一致，在本次ChainCatcher訪談中，Babylon聯創Fisher Yu表示，自己、David和EigenLayer創辦人Sreeram Kannan（簡稱Sreeram）都是好友，兩人還曾合著研究區塊鏈資料可用性的“coded Merkle tree”，一起提出了“安全性共享”概念，只不過EigenLayer選擇了提取以太坊安全性，Babylon選擇提取比特幣安全性。
In this interview with ChainCatcher, Babylon, in agreement with Eigen Layer of Ether's re-deposit agreement, wrote that Freeram Kannan, the founder of
「比特幣+Babylon」可以視為“以太坊+EigenLayer”，但由於比特幣不支持智能合約，Babylon需要比EigenLayer多做一步，也是從0-1最難的一步，讓不可質押的比特幣先變得可以在質押，之後再做比特幣再質押。
"bitcoin+Babylon" can be considered as "Ethio+EigenLayer", but because bitcoin does not support intelligent contracts, Babylon needs to do more than EigenLayer and is the hardest step from 0-1 to make unattainable bitcoins available to be encumbered first and then re-deposed bitcords.
截至4月2日，Babylon已獲得了許多知名資本支持，並與多個專案方達成了合作。根據加密資料平台Rootdata顯示，目前Babylon公開的融資金額累計已有2,600萬美元，投資機構包括Polychain Capital、Framework Ventures、Polygon Ventures、Binance Labs等多個知名資本。
As of April 2, Babylon has been supported by a number of well-known funds and has cooperated with a number of projects. According to the encryption data platform Rootdata, there are currently $26 million in publicly available capital in Babylon, with investment institutions such as Polychain Capital, Framewerk Ventures, Polygon Ventures, Binance Labs, etc.
3月21日，比特幣數據可用性層Nubit宣布與Babylon達成合作，Nubit計劃利用Babylon的技術加強其數據可用性層的安全性；3月14日，比特幣原生流動性和穩定幣DeFi協議Yala與比特幣質押協議Babylon宣布集成，支持用戶在Yala平台上以比特幣等資產參與Babylon的質押。
On 21 March, Nubit announced cooperation with Babylon in the useable layer of Bitcoins, and Nubit plans to use Babylon's technology to enhance the security of the available layer of data; on 14 March, Babylon, in the context of the Bitcoins original fluidity and stability currency DeFi agreement between Yala and Bitcoin pledge agreement, announced that he was integrated to support users'participation in Babylon's pledge in the Yala platform in Bitylon, among other assets.
此外，2月28日，Babylon開放質押測試網活動並向早期參與用戶提供先鋒通行證NFT，受到社群用戶追捧，上線不到48小時，參與的用戶就超過了10萬+。
In addition, on 28 February, Babylon's open-conviction testing network and the provision of a front-line pass on NFT to early participants were followed by community users, who had been online for less than 48 hours, and the number of participants exceeded 100,000+.
在接受ChainCatcher採訪時，Babylon聯創表示,Babylon將在4-5月開啟第二輪測試網活動,覆蓋群體將會更廣；Q3會上線主網。
In an interview with ChainCatcher, Babylon co-authored , Babylon will open a second round of test web activities in April-May, covering a wider community; Q3 will be online.
ChainCatcher邀請了Babylon聯創Fisher Yu就「Babylon比特幣質押原理、背後開發故事、與EigenLayer的關係等」問題進行了探討。
ChainCatcher invited Fabyl Yu, a coalition of Babylon, to discuss "Babylon bitcoat principles, back-to-back story, relationship with EigenLayer, etc."
1、ChainCatcher ：在創建Babylon產品之前，Fisher Yu是從事什麼工作的？因何契機接觸Web3領域的？在Web3產業有哪些經驗？現在Babylon主要負責哪些工作？
1, ChainCatcher : What was Fisher Yu doing before the construction of the Babylon product?
Fisher Yu：我個人2012-2016年在澳洲國立大學攻讀博士，研究方向是網路資訊安全，並在博士最後一年，發明了一套去中心化的串流分發協議及專利，售賣給了杜比實驗室，從此和去中心化網路結緣。
隨後去美國南加州大學做博士後，研究方向是去中心化網路安全（也就是區塊鏈安全），期間結識了David Tse（簡稱David）教授，也是Babylon的Co-Founder，並和團隊發表了2篇重要的研究成果：一個是和EigenLayer創始人Sreeram Kannan（簡稱“Sreeram”）合著的“coded Merkle tree”，這是區塊鏈數據可用性領域最有影響力的成果之一；另一個是polyshard ,是區塊鏈擴展性領域的著名成果。
After going to the University of Southern California to do a Ph.D., the research was directed towards decentralizing Internet security (i.e. sector chain security), which led to the identification of Professor David Tse (simple David) and Co-Founder of Babylon, and to the presentation of two important findings with the team: “coeded Merkle Tree”, a co-founder with EigenLayer's founder, Sreram Kannan (simplely “Sreeram”), one of the most influential results of the regional chain availability domain; and one of the most famous results of the polysard, a regional chain extension domain.
博後做了半年，就被邀請加入杜比實驗室負責領導去中心化串流媒體系統的研發。在杜比實驗室工作期間，和David教授持續合作一些區塊鏈的學術研究以及大型公鏈的專案諮詢如安全性升級，積累了很多經驗。在2021年底，我們和EigenLayer創始人Sreeram教授就開始思考“安全性共享的概念問題”，用更大的鍊為更小的鏈提供安全服務。
After six months of work, Dooby's lab was invited to lead the development of a central stream of media systems. During the Dooby lab work, a number of chain studies and large public chain projects, such as safety upgrades, continued to work with Professor David. At the end of 2021, we began to think about “the concept of safe sharing” with Professor Freeram, the founder of Eigen Layer, using larger chains to provide security services for smaller chains.
最終，Sreeram教授選擇了以太坊，我和David選擇了比特幣，以打造bitcoin security sharing (比特幣安全性共享)目標，並發明了第一個相關協議，創業成立Babylon。
In the end, Professor Sreeram chose Etherom, and David and I chose bitcoin to build the goal of bitcoin security share and invented the first agreement to create Babylon.
目前，我是Babylon的co-founder和CTO，負責領導工程師團隊。
At present, I am Co-founder and CTO of Babylon, leading the engineering team.
2、ChainCatcher ：Babylon產品定位是怎樣的？想要解決哪些問題？
2, ChainCatcher : What is the position of the Babylon product? What problems do you want to solve?
Fisher Yu： Babylon的願景是打造一個由比特幣網路所保護的去中心化世界。要達成這個目標，Babylon需要建立一組完整的安全共享協議，將比特幣網路的各種安全性提取出來並分享給其它的去中心化系統。
Fisher Yu: Babylon’s vision is to create a decentralised world protected by the Bitcoin network. To achieve this goal, Babylon needs to establish a complete security-sharing agreement to extract and share the various security aspects of the Bitcoin network with other decentralized systems.
目前，Babylon已經開發了比特幣時間戳協議（Bitcoin Time Stamping）和無信任比特幣質押協議（Bitcoin Staking）。前者主要解決POS網路中的長距離攻擊問題，顯著效果就是可以將PoS質押解綁週期從幾週降低為1天；後者解決了PoS網路過度依賴原生資產質押導致的啟動初期安全性低，高通膨，低流動性的問題，並且為比特幣持有者激活了除了價值存儲和支付外的第三個使用場景（質押並獲取收益）。
To date, Babylon has launched the Bitcoin Time Stamming and the Untrusted Bitcoin Stashing. The former deals mainly with long-range attacks on the POS network, with the notable effect of reducing the period of the PoS hostage release from a few weeks to one day; and then solves the initial security, high inflation, low mobility problems caused by the reliance of the PoS network on primary asset deposits, and activates a third usage (carriage and recovery) in addition to value storage and payment for the currency holders.
總的來說，Babylon是透過Cosmos SDK實現的一組協議。
In general, Babylon is a group of agreements that have been implemented through Cosmos SDK.
3、ChainCatcher ：2月28日，Babylon向公眾開放質押測試網、並向完成質押體驗的用戶提供先鋒通行證（The Bitcoin Pioneer Pass）獎勵，按照原計劃該活動於3月5日結束。但該活動為何未到約定日期就提早關閉了？測試網質押營運結果如何？有哪些問題還需要改善？
3, ChainCatcher
Fisher Yu：這主要是因為Pioneer Pass NFT活動不僅有7天的時間限制，還有10萬的名額限制，開放僅48小時10萬名額就都領完了，只好將活動提前下線。
Fisher Yu: is mainly due to not only the seven-day time limit for Pioneer Pass NFT activities, but also the 100,000 quota limit, which is 48 hours and 100,000 places for openings, so that the event can be deactivated.
這次活動遇到的問題就是：社群使用者多次回饋領水（faucet）很難，沒有預料到社群的熱情如此高漲。這主要是因為在早期為了公平起見，Babylon並沒有提供自己的faucet，而是提前一周分享了比特幣核心開發者BTC Signet所有者Kalle Alm自己的faucet。
The problem with the event was that it was difficult for community users to return to the water (faucet) on several occasions, and it was not anticipated that the enthusiasm of the community would rise so high. This was mainly because Babylon did not provide his own faucet in the early days, but shared his own faucet with BTC Signet's core developer, Kalle Alm, a week in advance.
雖然已經提前幾週就和Kalle Alm及其所在公司DG Labs同步可能會出現的高流量，但活動流量還是遠超預計，導致Signet faucet網站多次癱瘓，很多人領不到水。為了解決這個問題，Babylon在活動上線後4個小時內搭建了自己的discord faucet供大家使用，但因為流量太大，還是有很多人帶不到水。
Although Kalle Alm and his company DG Labs have been synchronizing with the likely high flow a few weeks in advance, the traffic is still far from predictable, causing Signet faucet sites to collapse several times, and many people are unable to reach water. To solve this problem, Babylon built his own Discord faucet within four hours of the event, but because the flow is too large, many people still do not have access to water.
4.ChainCatcher ：根據Rootdata加密數據顯示，Babylon公開的融資金額已經共計有2600萬美元，投資機構包括Polychain Capital和Hack VC、Framework Ventures、Polygon Ventures、IOSG Ventures等多個知名機構，還有Binance Labs、 ABCDE Capital投資金額未公佈。被加密社群稱為是「群星」一致看好的項目，你認為資本為何看好Babylon？在對接機構過程中，有哪些經驗讓您難以忘懷？
4. ChainCatcher
Fisher Yu：看好並支持Babylon的，不是簡單的資本而是對去中心化世界有信仰有長期主義決心的合作夥伴，Babylon有很紮實的技術和持續創新打底，要實現的是去中心化世界大一統的願景，只有和志向相同的夥伴們才會願意一起向目標前進。
對接機構的過程，有點對DD（盡職調查）有陰影，VC的盡調問題很多，根本做不完。
There's a bit of a shadow over the DD (exercising investigation) process, and the VC has a lot of problems, and it can't be done.
5.ChainCatcher ：Babylon協議不但讓BTC持有者能夠在無需信任任何第三方的情況下質押比特幣，即BTC持有者在不將資產轉出錢包地址的情況下獲得質押生息收益，同時還能將比特幣的安全機制引入PoS鏈中。 Babylon這技術上是如何實現的，究竟是如何運作的？
5. ChainCatcher
Fisher Yu：要回答這個問題，需要先了解什麼是質押資產、及什麼樣的資產才有資格被認定為質押資產。
Fisher Yu: to answer this question needs to know what constitutes a pledge and what kind of asset is eligible for recognition as a pledge.
一個資產要成為質押資產，必須至少滿足兩個條件：一是可鎖定，也就是被質押的資產不可以交易或轉移；二是可被罰沒，也就是當質押者攻擊其質押對象（通常是PoS鏈）時，它鎖住的資產可以被罰沒。
For an asset to become a pledge, at least two conditions must be met: one is lockable, i.e. the encumbered asset cannot be traded or transferred, and the other is punishable, i.e. when the grantor attacks its pledge counterpart (usually the PoS chain), the asset it holds can be fined.
在此基礎上，還有一些額外的功能特質，例如可委託（delegation）（PoS的質押委託）、可隨時解質押、可部分罰沒、可再質押restake等。
On this basis, there are additional functional features, such as commissioning (PoS's remand commission), release at any time, partial punishment, restake, etc.
Babylon的比特幣質押協議不僅實現了上述的所有條件和特質，使得比特幣成為了first class原生質押資產，允許在用戶為PoS 區塊鏈質押比特幣並賺取收益同時，而比特幣持有者無需把比特幣交給任何第三方託管、橋接解決方案或包裝服務，不需要信任任何price oracle，是真正的原鏈無信任質押。
Babylon's bitcoin pledge agreement not only fulfils all of the above conditions and characteristics, making the bitcoin a primary hostage of first class, allowing the user to encumber bitcoins for PoS chains and make gains, while the bitcoin holder has no need to hand over bitcoins to any third party for charge, bridge settlement or package services, without any need to trust any price orlacle, is a genuine chain untrustworthy pledge.
而Babylon是一種比特幣質押協議，開創了原生比特幣質押的概念。
Babylon, on the other hand, was a bitcoin pledge agreement that developed the concept of original bitcoin pledge.
業界普遍認知是這是不可能的，因為比特幣沒有智慧合約，無法正確執行罰沒。但是比特幣網路其實有一個腳本語言，允許用戶自訂一些簡單的比特幣使用條件，當且僅當條件觸發時，該比特幣才能被使用。我們利用了比特幣的腳本語言，結合巧妙的密碼學技術，在比特幣上實現了一個等效於質押智能合約的協議。
The industry generally recognizes that this is not possible, because the bitcoins do not have an intellectual contract and cannot properly enforce the penalty. But the Bitcoin web has a script language that allows users to order simple bitcoins for their own use, which is used only when conditions trigger. Using the bitcoins script language, we have a fine cipher ciphered cipher technology, and we have an equivalent agreement on bitcoin that is used to secure intellectual contracts.
例如，比特幣腳本語言允許時間鎖，也就是允許使用者自訂鎖定期，在此期間，該比特幣（UTXO）無法轉移。例如，如果給一個比特幣上一把1000個比特幣區塊的時間鎖，那麼該比特幣就會被鎖定一個星期左右，從而實現質押中要求的鎖定。
For example, the bitcoin script language allows time locks, which allow users to set their own locks for a fixed period, during which the bitcoins (UTXOs) cannot be transferred. For example, if a bitcoins were given a time lock of 1,000 bits, the bitcoins would be locked for about a week, from the point of delivery.
此外，比特幣支援的Schnorr簽名演算法在特定的構造下，有一個有趣的性質，如果簽名持有者為相互衝突的兩個訊息同時簽名，則任何看到這兩組簽名的人都可以反解出該簽章的私鑰。
In addition, the Bitcoin-supported Schnorr signature algorithm has an interesting quality under a particular structure, and if the signature holder signs at the same time for two conflicting messages, anyone who sees the signatures can reverse the key to the signature.
Babylon利用這個特質，為比特幣持有者構造了一個簽名可用其鎖定被質押的比特幣，鎖定之後，比特幣持有者可以用該簽名去參加PoS系統的共識。如果他在參與共識時攻擊PoS系統亂投票，他的Schnorr私鑰就可以被任何人反解，導致其質押的比特幣被罰沒。
Babylon uses this characteristic to construct a bitcoin for a bitcoin holder with a signature that he can lock into, and then a bitcoin holder can use that signature to join the PoS system consensus. If he votes indiscriminately against the PoS system when he joins the consensus, his Schnorr private key can be reversed by anyone, and the bitcoin that he holds can be fined.
在整個過程中，比特幣質押者沒有將比特幣交給任何人，也沒有把解鎖質押的私鑰交給任何人，所以是完全無信任的。
Throughout the process, the Bitcoin grantor did not give the bitcoin to anyone, nor did he give the key to the unlocking pledge to anyone, and therefore was completely untrustworthy.
以上只是簡單的原理，實際的構造會複雜得多， Babylon將推出BTC Staking 101 Series博客，歡迎關注學習！
These are simple principles, and the actual structure is much more complicated. Babylon will launch BTC Staking 101 Series blog, welcome to study!
6、ChainCatcher ：作為用戶，更關注Babylon主要有哪些角色和參與者組成？每個角色負責的任務是什麼？一般用戶有哪些參與方式？
6, ChainCatcher : As a user, let's focus more on which of Babylon's main players and participants are made up. What are the tasks for each of them? What are the modes of participation for ordinary users?
Fisher Yu：從生態角度來說，Babylon的生態角色和其它基礎設施項目沒有太大不同，所以這裡我們只重點講一下比特幣質押協議的參與者。
Fisher Yu: is not so different from other foundational projects from a biological point of view, so let's just focus here on the participants in the Bitcoat agreement.
PoS網路質押的主要參與者有持幣的用戶，驗證者節點，錢包等等。當比特幣質押協議被引入後，持幣用戶拓展到了比特幣持有者，驗證節點則可以選擇運行驗證節點，或者運行由比特幣質押支持的finality provider(終局提供者)，錢包方則需要無縫支援多幣種，包括比特幣和PoS原生代幣。
The main participants in the PoS online pledge are money-holding users, tester nodes, wallets, etc. When the Bit money pledge agreement was introduced, the currency holder was extended to the Bit currency holder, and the test node was selected to run the proof node, or to run the financial processor (end-of-service provider) supported by the Bit currency pledge, which required seamless support for multiple currencies, including the Bitcoin and PoS original generation.
7.ChainCatcher ：Babylon使用比特幣安全性的場景有哪些？能否舉一些具體的例子來解釋？
7. ChainCatcher : What is the safety scene of Babylon using bitcoins? Can you give some concrete examples?
Fisher Yu：採用比特幣質押保護的PoS系統可以獲得遠超其原生資產市值的安全性，從而可以吸引更多的用戶及價值TVL。
Fisher Yu: , which uses bitcoins to protect the PoS system, can gain security well beyond the market value of its original assets and can attract more users and value TVL.
此外，由於持有比特幣本身沒有任何可靠的收益，比特幣持有者對質押獎勵的期望值應該是低於PoS原生資產的,所以PoS系統在通過通貨膨脹提供質押獎勵時，面向比特幣質押的通貨膨脹的壓力會小很多。
In addition, since the holding of bitcoins does not in itself produce any reliable returns, the expectations of bitcoins holders for the prizes should be lower than those originally produced by PoS, so that the PoS system would have much less pressure on bitcoins when offering the prizes through inflation.
8.ChainCatcher ：關於質押平台尤其是BTC質押，持有者更關注資產質押在平台的安全性，之前有不少鏈上存幣生息平台在積累到一定量的資產後，或因黑客事件或因其它原因跑路的情況時有發生，最終不但沒有了收益連本金也沒了。 Babylon比特幣質押是如何保障質押用戶的資產安全？
8. ChainCatcher : With regard to the security of the encumbered platform, in particular the BTC, the holder is more concerned about the security of the encumbered assets, and there are a number of previously held-in-link money platforms that occur after accumulation of a certain amount of assets, or as a result of hacking or other reasons running away, with no return on the principals.
Fisher Yu：系統漏洞除外，這些系統出問題大部分原因是它們的底層都需要比特幣持有者把比特幣轉給由第三方控制的錢包，Babylon比特幣質押不需要這個方式，從根本上杜絕了跑路的發生。
Except for Fisher Yu: system loopholes, which are largely due to the fact that the bottom of their systems requires Bitcoins to be transferred by their holders to third-party-controlled wallets, and Babylonbits bets that do not need this method, and that is essentially the way they run off the road.
9.ChainCatcher ：除了資產安全性外，Babylon上的質押資產退出流程是怎麼樣的？一般需要多久？
9. ChainCatcher : In addition to security of assets, what is the exit process for the encumbered assets on Babylon?
Fisher Yu：質押的比特幣在比特幣網路上是由時間鎖鎖住的，時間鎖到期後用戶可以隨時立即取出，在時間鎖到期之前，協議也允許提前退出。
Fisher Yu: held bitcoins are locked in time on the Bitcoins network, and users can remove them at any time after the time lock has expired, and agreements allow early exit before the time lock has expired.
不過，為防止質押者在攻擊PoS鏈後馬上通過提前退出逃避罰沒，和絕大多數PoS鏈一樣，比特幣提前退出會有一個幾天的退出期，且在此期間，質押的比特幣無法參與共識也不可取出。
However, in order to prevent the detainee from fleeing punishment by pre-departure immediately after attacking the PoS chain, as in most cases the PoS chain, the pre-departure of Bitcoin will have a few days'notice period, during which the pledged bitcoin will not be able to participate in consensus and will not be possible.
10、ChainCatcher ：Babylon與以太坊EigenLayer有何不同？
10, ChainCatcher : What's the difference between Babylon and Etheria EigenLayer?
Fisher Yu： EigenLayer的創辦人Sreeram Kannan教授是我和David的好朋友，我在資料可用性方向的Coded Merkle Tree論文就是和他合著的，而安全性共享（security sharing）是我們在2021-2022年間共同萌生的願景和努力方向，最終Sreeram選擇了以太坊網絡，我和David選擇了比特幣網路。
EigenLayer實現了ETH質押的從1到10的進化：ETH本身已可以質押，EigenLayer使得其可以再質押。 Babylon比EigenLayer需多做一步需從0到1：讓不可質押的比特幣先變得可以質押，之後再做比特幣再質押，實現1-10。
EigenLayer realized the evolution of the ETH pledge from 1 to 10: the ETH itself is ready to be held, and EigenLayer allows it to be re-encumbered. Babylon has to do one more step than EigenLayer from 0 to 1: to make the unattainable bitcoins available to be encumbered, and then to be re-encumbered with bitcoin, which is between 1 and 10.
而DA層只是可以被（再）質押協議保護的應用場景之一，（再）質押下有很多去中心化服務可以實現。
And the DA level is just one of the applications that can be (and again) protected by the agreement, and many of the services that go to the centre can be delivered.
11.ChainCatcher ：根據統計比特幣Layer2網路已經有50+，內捲程度堪比以太坊Layer2。面對混亂的Layer2市場，您認為競爭格局會如何演變，個人篩選Layer2專案的維度有哪些？
11. ChainCatcher : The Bitcoin Layer2 network already has 50 +s, with a degree of introspection similar to that of the Ethio Layer2. In the face of the chaotic Layer2 market, how do you think the competition patterns will evolve, and what are the dimensions of the individual selection of the Layer2 project?
Fisher Yu：比特幣生態沒有單一的思想領袖，不像以太坊有Vitalik，這使得大家可以百花齊放百家爭鳴，期待比特幣生態像春秋戰國時期一樣，可以誕生出多個偉大的思想和方向，引領去中心化世界的發展。
Fisher Yu: Bitcoin has no single intellectual leader, unlike Vitalik in Etheria, which allows everyone to compete and expect the Bitcoin to be born with great ideas and directions, as it was during the Spring and Fall Wars, leading to the development of a central world.
個人會比較感興趣的是，能真正為比特幣網路和其它網路都帶來好處、有創造價值（positive sum）的項目。
Personally, it would be more interesting to actually bring benefits and value-added items to the Bitcoin and other networks.
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